Gopher Coaches Will Not Be Back

[Michael Linehan]

I guess I'm showing my ignorance then of how things could/should work. I'll learn eventually.

Seems a little odd to me that so many wanted Lisa and Julie out yet the guy at St. Thomas and NDSU won't take the job? Wow.

[Tim Husted]

Michael,

I agree that Lisa/Julie did leave some talent on the roster.  That isn't the issue.  The talented kids a coach would want to keep. 

The issue is that they also were known for recruiting a few kids from their camps/clinics and giving them roster spots and small $ to help them continue to keep a "Minnesota Feel" as well as help keep their camps and clinics popular. 

A new coach would want to weed out the kids who are not D1 talented quickly. 

I think the real issues that for the 4 finalists that turned the job down, they have built and proven programs (Mueller/Condon/Tschida) or are a top assistant in the Pac10, why would they start over and not get benefits for 4 years.  Also, they may be candidates for other jobs (ex.  Wisconsin/Iowa) and/or expect better jobs to open next year etc

I"m also curious what the U is paying their candidate.  Lisa and Julie were not paid equally although both had Head Coach Titles and the Pac 10 assistant was making $4K less than what Julie was paid (all salary data is public record from 2008).  Not sure about "clinic pay" etc

Speaking of pay, I was shocked to see the pay that the Blevins was paid at Iowa the past 4 years, she has to be a major outlyer in the profession although potentially there is clinic money or retirement income that is hitting in the totals I saw in their public record database.  I have to assume that there will be a substancial cost savings by hiring a new coach or every coach in the country would be appling for the $135K Iowa head coaching job.

University of Wisconsin's salaries are not available via web from what I can find.

Money, Control, Contract Terms, Power, Autonomy, Facilities, Level of organizational support (ie $$$$) are all factors in these types of decisions even if it is softball.

TJH

[Michael Linehan]

I would assume for Mueller and Tschida it would be the lure of the Big 10. TV time, exposure, playing in a conference that has produced a D1 NCAA Title in the last 10 years. St. Thomas is what, DIII? and NDSU is great, but that program may have gone as far as it can go.

Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore?

So, the University is losing their coaching candidates over clinic kids with partial schollies? Really? I hope it's the pay instead, I really do.

It sounded like some big boosters wanted Lisa and Julie gone, wanted to win....etc. All understandable and justifiable. But if A. the "U" won't give the coach the control they want, or B. No coaches want to come here. That really puts the program in a lurch.

[Darren Hansen]

I find this interesting:

http://www.athleticlink.com/JobView.asp?JobId=104254


Wouldn't the new coach bring in there own staff? 

[Sam Dillon]

But if A. the "U" won't give the coach the control they want, or B. No coaches want to come here. That really puts the program in a lurch.

Now they've also missed the summer recruiting season.

[Tim Husted]

Sam,

If you think about a few unrelated details I would assume the U of M didn't care much about the summer recruiting season since the new coach will have to keep the current 2011 class...

TJH

[Aaron Vail]

Darren Mueller was hired this morning as the new coach at the University of MN.

This information was given to me by a trusted "boss" that was a part of the MN Hiring Committee at one time. Not only did he tell me, but he told multiple people in our "Assocation" and, through conversation with him and another candidate for this same position tonight, what he told us was totally fabricated and had no base for merit. He backtracked and ultimately made it clear that there was nothing to his "story".

I can not begin to apologize for any pain or anger I caused anybody associated with this. Coach Mueller, his players, staff, recruits, anybody and everybody. I was simply trying to pass on information that I trusted and I retract it. I was trying to pass on "Good News" and a "Congratulations" and I now realize that it was not my place to do that to my colleague and friend and I am truly sorry. I was truly excited to hear that he would be taking over at a program all of us, who read these posts, want to succeed.

[Vince Muehe]

Darren Mueller was given a three year contract extension at NDSU today.  Information received from Jeff Schwartz, NDSU Director of Athletic Media Relations.  See article: http://www.fastsports.com/#100723A


Vince

[David Wolvington]

I would assume for Mueller and Tschida it would be the lure of the Big 10. TV time, exposure, playing in a conference that has produced a D1 NCAA Title in the last 10 years. St. Thomas is what, DIII? and NDSU is great, but that program may have gone as far as it can go.

Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore?

I don't think the challenge is the question. Darren Mueller has brought a D2 team into D1 and into the NCAA post season. Somehow, I don't think he's finished if he didn't like challenges. My guess is, he's made promises of potential to be able to recruit California like he has. NDSU is a great buy if you have to pay for your own education and most players do. Perhaps he'll build his program into the, "Boise State Football" of college softball. I would think that might be a great thing to stick around for.

John Tschida has to recruit players without athletic scholarships. I think that's quite a challenge, yet he gets D1 players to come play for him. The question of other income from camps and clinics doesn't stop him from being the best in the country in that area. When I'm asked what clinics a player should go to, I tell parents, "If you're interested in particular college, go there. If you want them to learn fast-pitch softball, send them to John Tschida."

It's as much a quality of life decision as anything else. Many people choose to work within their faith rather than for follow the superficial prestige of a higher profile position or even more money. The University of Wisconsin may have found that out with their last hire retracting. I know Mike Candrea drives about an hour each way to work through rural Arizona. An hour commute to the U of M would barely get you to rural Minnesota during rush hour. A D3 coach would have to give up a great deal of freedom of communication under D1 rules. Not everyone wants to give up so much freedom.

David

[Tim Husted]

Wisconsin hired Yvette Healy from Loyola; Chicago.....

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/w-softbl/spec-rel/072410aab.html

TJH

[Michael Linehan]

I would assume for Mueller and Tschida it would be the lure of the Big 10. TV time, exposure, playing in a conference that has produced a D1 NCAA Title in the last 10 years. St. Thomas is what, DIII? and NDSU is great, but that program may have gone as far as it can go.

Doesn't anyone like a challenge anymore?

I don't think the challenge is the question. Darren Mueller has brought a D2 team into D1 and into the NCAA post season. Somehow, I don't think he's finished if he didn't like challenges. My guess is, he's made promises of potential to be able to recruit California like he has. NDSU is a great buy if you have to pay for your own education and most players do. Perhaps he'll build his program into the, "Boise State Football" of college softball. I would think that might be a great thing to stick around for.

John Tschida has to recruit players without athletic scholarships. I think that's quite a challenge, yet he gets D1 players to come play for him. The question of other income from camps and clinics doesn't stop him from being the best in the country in that area. When I'm asked what clinics a player should go to, I tell parents, "If you're interested in particular college, go there. If you want them to learn fast-pitch softball, send them to John Tschida."

It's as much a quality of life decision as anything else. Many people choose to work within their faith rather than for follow the superficial prestige of a higher profile position or even more money. The University of Wisconsin may have found that out with their last hire retracting. I know Mike Candrea drives about an hour each way to work through rural Arizona. An hour commute to the U of M would barely get you to rural Minnesota during rush hour. A D3 coach would have to give up a great deal of freedom of communication under D1 rules. Not everyone wants to give up so much freedom.

David

Flipping the conversation around then. The Minnesota job sure doesn't seem to be that attractive. I heard there were some high level donors involved in wanting a change. How disappointed are they now that it looks like the top 4 on the wish list have all turned the job down?

[Bob O'Neil]

Flipping the conversation around then. The Minnesota job sure doesn't seem to be that attractive. I heard there were some high level donors involved in wanting a change. How disappointed are they now that it looks like the top 4 on the wish list have all turned the job down?

I think the larger question might be to all involved with Minnesota Softball, after moving to open softball at 14 and 16 and allowing for many of the more talented players to play at a more focused level are we any closer to the day when a Division 1 team can be built with players who are from Minnesota? I know at NDSU the roster is largely built with California kids but that seems to be held up as an example of a coach who is building a winner. I would think that many of the posters on this board have a large stake in the concept of a successful program that retains a "Minnesota flavor". Personally I would like to see the U look local for a coach that will try and build a team with kids from the Midwest, win or loose. I think I would rather see a successful program like the U of M's volleyball (only 2 of 14 on the roster are sunbelters) team held up as an example then the NDSU softball team.

[Michael Linehan]

Flipping the conversation around then. The Minnesota job sure doesn't seem to be that attractive. I heard there were some high level donors involved in wanting a change. How disappointed are they now that it looks like the top 4 on the wish list have all turned the job down?

I think the larger question might be to all involved with Minnesota Softball, after moving to open softball at 14 and 16 and allowing for many of the more talented players to play at a more focused level are we any closer to the day when a Division 1 team can be built with players who are from Minnesota? I know at NDSU the roster is largely built with California kids but that seems to be held up as an example of a coach who is building a winner. I would think that many of the posters on this board have a large stake in the concept of a successful program that retains a "Minnesota flavor". Personally I would like to see the U look local for a coach that will try and build a team with kids from the Midwest, win or loose. I think I would rather see a successful program like the U of M's volleyball (only 2 of 14 on the roster are sunbelters) team held up as an example then the NDSU softball team.

That's a take I hadn't considered but isn't a win or lose mostly Midwestern team what we sort of already had now with Lisa and Julie? I count 12 midwestern kids and 20 on the roster from this past spring.

And with you pointing out that NDSU had done it with California kids that puts an entirely different dynamic on NDSU's success contributing to the recent "non-renewal" of the contracts.

I guess I don't know. What is the goal here?

Oh, and lest we forget 7 of those players were named to the All-Academic team and one of them with a 4.0. These are student athletes after all.

[Dan Honoroff]

It's a shame we can't compete with other schools similar to our size, location, and talent pool.  Here's a quick look comparing Big 10 midwest players to warm weather state players (FLA, CA, GA, TX, etc.)

Ohio State has 8 in and 10 from out.
Northwestern has 10 in and 6 from out.
Michigan has 12 in and 4 from out.
Illinois has 8 in and 13 from out.
Minn has 5 in and 7 from out.

It's sad but it almost makes the cliche 'you couldn't pay me to do that job' a reality with the U coaching position.
 

[Bob O'Neil]

"It's sad but it almost makes the cliche 'you couldn't pay me to that job' a reality with the U coaching position."

Then maybe they should look at some of the fantastic HS and club coaches we have in this state who make negative dollars per hour coaching players and teams.

[Tom Bell]

...the concept of a successful program that retains a "Minnesota flavor". Personally I would like to see the U look local for a coach that will try and build a team with kids from the Midwest, win or loose....

Wasn't that the philosophy (or a variation of it) that Doug Woog had with Men's Hockey?  Wasn't Don Lucia brought in to go for winning as the first priority over roster home towns?

[Tim Husted]

Minnesota can be pretty provincial by nature, it is a uniquely Midwestern concept.

It is better to do it with our own then to simply get it done. 

And probably has been the downfall of the U of M program in many ways.  The provincial nature of Minnesotas created a situation where they held on to community softball concepts (and rules) when the other parts of the country moved away to club ball.  And so in other states, 12U/14U kids who had the actual potential to play elite ball were given opportunities to get better coaching/better experience that prepared them to eventually become D1 ball players for their local colleges and universities (or out of town colleges and universities). 

Not saying that all community coaches are inadequate at the progression teaching needed to develop D1 ball players.  I know and have coached with many such people.  But the logic is simple...

High Potential Player on a Team with Low Prepared Coach = 3% success rate
Low Potential Player on a Team with Low Prepared Coach = Less than .01% success rate
Low Potential Player on a Team with High Prepared Coach = 3% success rate
High Potential Player on a Team with High Prepared Coach = 12% success rate

Since the reality is that not every community has prepared coaches but every community has at least 1 high potential player -- may of our players lost their opportunity because early on they didn't get the coaching needed since the high prepared coach didn't live in their community.  Some players did, who were lucky enough to be in the right community with the right coaches etc.

This is the basis of a book titled "Bounce" which everyone should read. 

So I would argue that the University of Minnesota is hampered that we do not have club level softball and high level coaching and development for all of our high potential players at the 12U/14U age group. 

If we had the high potential kids playing for high prepared coaches early on, the result will be more D1 prepared ready to win players who at a higher than average rate would stay home and play for the University of Minnesota.  I know the top level of players in MN can compete with everyone else, our top pitcher I would put on the same level as the best in the country when it comes to her ability to win a softball game. 

Where we seem to struggle is depth.  So where we should have 12 D1 caliber players to pick from, we are trying to keep the 6.

And that comes down to coaching in my view.  If MN wants the Gophers to be the best possible D1 team using players from MN.  Then we need to commit to getting the best players on the teams with the coaches who can prepare players for that goal.  It takes more than their Soph/Junior year of HS.  10,000 hours.  If you run into a top D1 player, ask them when they started getting the coaching that helped them achieve their goals, I bet it was before they were 16. 

So...... As your kids are attending the dozens of tryouts where teams will tell your child "if she is good enough", think about if that is the right question.  I don't think it is. 

I believe the right first question comes from the player/parent to the team that says "do you have the level of coaching knowledge, experience and resume to help my child achieve their goals and maximum success in this sport".  And no matter if that program travels all over the country getting "exposure", wears the best uniforms, has the coolest nickname, attends the best tournaments, has the best teammates, wins the most games, costs the least or plays the best schedule -- the reality is that the coaching is what will matter long term. 

So I realize this is a tangent ... the conversation is about the U of M job.  I'm sure the U of M will hire a very qualified coach.  There are many rumors and facts throughout our community and although we all accept that 4 people have turned the job down; there are more than 4 people who could be the next "Great" coach for the U of M.  The right person will have to have the passion to do what it takes to be successful at the U of M, a great institution, within the boundaries the U of M thinks is important for their next head coach. 

But the failures of the program to hire a coach in my view fall on not only the administration but the community which isn't preparing enough players to compete and succeed at the D1 level.  I'm sure this is one of dozens of things a future U of M coach will be looking at when considering if they want to take this job.  So instead of focusing on who will be the savior, we should all start working to be part of the solution. 

We can focus on being better coaches or as John Woodin said "Lesson #3. Call yourself a teacher. If you want to be a leader, be a teacher. Show people how you want things done. Teach them how to do their jobs better. Invest your time and energy in improving them, and they’ll make the team better."

[Darren Hansen]

I heard the 2nd asst coach from Auburn is getting strong consideration for this job, If that is the case you have to be kidding me?

If this really is the case i am disappointed in how long this search has gone on to come to this conclusion..

Does the U of M care about building a strong softball program?   From what i see they are not serious about the future of Gopher Softball,

We in Minnesota want to see a winner! Not a mediocre program,



 

[Michael Linehan]

I heard the 2nd asst coach from Auburn is getting strong consideration for this job, If that is the case you have to be kidding me?

If this really is the case i am disappointed in how long this search has gone on to come to this conclusion..

Does the U of M care about building a strong softball program?   From what i see they are not serious about the future of Gopher Softball,

We in Minnesota want to see a winner! Not a mediocre program,  

Did you read Tim's post above? I think he pretty much nailed it on the head. As for the coaching hire I think change for change's sake is usually a bad idea and if they didn't know they weren't going to be able to hire someone they really wanted they probably should have thought twice about it. I don't think 2nd assistant from Auburn is what they originally had in mind. That being said we could be wrong and that person could be a Godsend. I'm still waiting for the Godsend part to happen for the football program. 

I'd love to see a winner too but I don't think you can at D1 with just/mostly Minnesota kids. Not unless a lot of things change. You can't do it in any of the other sports either. The only one that comes close is hockey and both the Men's and Women's program still have to look outside the state.

[Chris Howells]

Auburn is in the SEC probably the #2 softball conference after the Pac-10, had an overall winning record, finished in the middle of the SEC.  Not sure why an assistant from a program that plays in a better conference, has performed better in recent years and would have ties to recruiting in an area outside MN would be looked at as not serious.  Both assistants listed in their media guide have been their since 1997 so have plenty of experience playing at a high level.  

[Michael Linehan]

Auburn is in the SEC probably the #2 softball conference after the Pac-10, had an overall winning record, finished in the middle of the SEC.  Not sure why an assistant from a program that plays in a better conference, has performed better in recent years and would have ties to recruiting in an area outside MN would be looked at as not serious.  Both assistants listed in their media guide have been their since 1997 so have plenty of experience playing at a high level.  

I think it was mentioned before that the job the "U" is offering doesn't have much flexibility with the roster. How long will those "ties" to those other areas stay open if there's not that many spots available for a few years?

Just curious about the dynamic I suppose.

[Darren Hansen]

I did read Tim's post from above,  Looking at the roster and there are 5 players from Minnesota, The roster is a far cry from ALL Minnesota players,  The former regime i believe was not trying to win with only Minnesota players, They were recruiting the best players available to them and adding the best Minnesota players to put together what they thought would be successful,

As coach Blevins told me you are paid to win at the D1 level,   If they can win in Iowa, and NDSU it can be done in Minnesota, They need to bring in the correct person,

The 1 question is  the U of M really serious about developing a winning softball team?  does it matter to them?  If it was really serious we would have went out and got the best person for the job already and paid them what was needed to get them here, For some reason i don't think that is happening,

There were some very qualified candidates in our own backyard that would have considered taking the challenge had the right offers been given,


I would hate to be in the shoes of incoming recruits when its now August and still do not have a coach or any direction when 1 will be hired,

What do you think a certain pitcher from Eagan has in mind right now?


I want what is best for Minnesota and want to see the program successful, But question the direction of it right now,

[Michael Linehan]

There was actually 9 Minnesotans on this years team. You're looking at what's left for next years roster not including recruits.

NDSU is winning without a single girl from their own state. 7 from California.

I don't know much about Iowa Softball but they only have 5 carryovers from this year to next year that are from Iowa (8 girls total). Does Iowa have better instate players than we do? I couldn't say. They seem to have a pipeline into Illinois, how about their youth programs?

As for the qualified candidates from what we heard either A. They did not want the job, or B. The "U" didn't want to meet their demands whatever they may have been. Hard to say.

I'll go back to my original question cause I just don't know the answer: What is the goal here? I don't think I know. I do know the student part of the student athletes that were in the program were succeeding pretty well. I also know that they really haven't published what the goal is supposed to be.

[Tim Husted]

Not sure were there is confusion but I have to believe the coach from Auburn would be only in his 2nd year there.  I'm assuming it is the coach with major ties to Iowa. 

That said, Auburn is in the SEC and certainly moving from the SEC Assistant to Big 10 Head Coach ranks would be a reasonable promotion. 

But here is the deal, head coaches do best when they come from roles where they are proven recruiters as assistant coaches.  I have to think that the Auburn coach did recruiting at UNC-Pembroke and Auburn, the question is how successful was he in that role.   He did have a losing overall record at UNC-P but that is not indicative of coaching if he wasn't fully funded in that program.

I'm not sure why he wouldn't want the Iowa job, so even if he is the hot name; seems to me he'd be settling for the U considering his roots put him in Iowa more than Minnesota.

I do want to note, I have NOT heard anything about this person as a candidate, I reviewed it based on the notes on this board only.  Considering that we all know the major "source" for information earlier in the process has turned out to be a total fraud, not sure where people are getting inside info from the "U".

TJH

[Michael Linehan]

So, it's a second assistant with Auburn with 2 years of SEC experience and before that UNC-Pembrooke?

Maybe we could just name names. Who is it? Instead of what.